Roadside mirrors

Driz

These are now provided for at TSRGD 2016 Sched 11, Pt 2 item 75 ‘Traffic mirror for providing additional visibility’. TSRGD gives no guidance on size of the mirror and just says it must be convex and that the frame must be single colour (black, grey, yellow or white). Pt 6 item 13 says that the frame mustn't reflectorized. That’s all there is to go on from in TSRGD 2016. There doesn't seem to be anything in the TSMs for guidance. Currently we're resisting requests to provide them or allow them based on previous concerns about dazzle, condensation, distorted image, not seeing bikes or motorbikes etc, but we currently have an argument with a resident who is digging his heels in and insists one should be provided. Is it pretty much down to Local Authority policy?

Driz

...and virtually every convex mirror being advertised for use either has an orange frame or a red and white checkerboard frame.... (not that we want to be providing them anyway)

SimonMorgan

I agree. The highway authority has the right to say "it's our policy not to erect mirrors", but now they're in TSRGD it's more difficult to resist the pressure, particularly when elected members get involved.

For Traffic Signs Manual advice, you need to refer to Chapter 2 ... er ... where is Chapter 2? ... can't seem to find it anywhere.

Driz

…groan... Chapt 2 Informatory Signs 'to be published at a later date'. Oh well....

AndyS

The resident who is digging his heels in - are they claiming there is an evidence-based problem or is it just a perceived problem.
As in, "My car was hit last week" or "Traffic travels past my house at 60mph!" (when in reality it's 35). Can anything else be done to alleviate the problem - cut back/remove a hedge, reduce a wall in height, or (god forbid) actually provide a proper visibility splay?
Driz - do you have a copy of Internal Advice Note 3/81. It's very old but contains some useful info. I've got a PDF copy if you wish? I could email it to Simon and he could forward it to you?

SimonMorgan

This document from Leicestershire is very helpful. Although it predates the 2016 TSRGD, it could be useful as a model for other authorities' policies on this.

Driz

The resident lives in a rural village and shares a long private driveway with his neighbour that opens out onto a 30mph road. The visibility is admittedly very poor, but my advice to date has always been that the solution is in their hands. Cut back, lower the height, reposition, or even remove the hedge completely and replace it with a fence that provides visibility through the gaps. The answer was 'shock and horror' that we could even suggest such a thing. Our position was on firmer ground pre-2016, but now that mirrors are in TSRGD (even if advice on when/where they should be used is 'limited') the argument's slightly more tenuous. A published Chapter 2 may have helped. We have legacy item mirrors on a few of our rural junctions that have been there for decades, but new applications have always been refused. The LCC policy document makes reference to 3/81 and in the absence of DfT guidance and with no formal policy on roadside mirrors where I am I now feel a 'Copy/Paste' moment approaching and new policy for our Council being submitted, which will look remarkably similar to the LCC one. Thanks Simon .........(and Andy)

RyanCooper

There was DfT guidance on these, but for the life of me can’t find it (probably IAN 3/81). It may have been removed in 2016 when they became prescribed, or the DMRB was overhauled.

This (http://www.cheshireeasthighways.org/Uploads/Files/approved-mirrors-on-the-highway-policy.pdf ) from Cheshire pulls out the key bits though in section 1.4 - I use these criteria whenever we get the odd request, even if it isn’t formally documented in policy (yet).

Andy, grateful for a pdf copy of 3/81 if you still have it handy.

AndyS

I'd suggest quoting your email on here might not be a good idea, so I'll forward it to Simon for him to pass on to you if that's OK with you both?